[00:00:00] Jane: [00:00:00] Raif, I'm really happy to have you here with us on a seat at the table. I think that right now data has become such a key topic for people, particularly in the market research sector.
[00:00:12] Rajiv: [00:00:12] Yep. That's correct. Absolutely correct. Jane,
[00:00:15] Jane: [00:00:15] from your point of view, from what you've been working on with so many large brands, what do you see as some of the new ways that people are able to take a lot of the data that they've been collecting or maybe.
[00:00:27] Do a better job of collecting the important data and what are some of the new ways that they're able to implement that, to be able to get better customer feedback, to be able to let that lead some of their marketing.
[00:00:42] Rajiv: [00:00:42] Yes, thanks. I think it's a very interesting question. And I must say, I think in the last three years post Covid, I have seen a significant change.
[00:00:52] The companies were always collecting data before, right? But they did not possibly know or had necessary infrastructure [00:01:00] to be able to deploy actionability on that. So what has happened in the last three years? I've seen companies becoming more savvy in terms of implementing the systems and the tools.
[00:01:13] We're having so much data, but not having an analytical system or even softwares where this data can be well managed was missing. So especially in Asia, I've seen a lot more penetration of CRM systems. So systems like Salesforce, HubSpot, you know are getting more penetra. Where data has been relatively better structured and more and more companies are capturing their customer data and they're structuring it better, they're implementing things like chat bots, which is helping in terms of the entire customer engagement.
[00:01:46] And on top of that order, also see that people have started utilizing this data. So previously a lot of these large enterprises were going to consulting companies to do market research. But normally, as you know, [00:02:00] consulting companies take time. They take, you know, almost a month to come back with insights and consulting companies are giving the aggregated level information.
[00:02:08] But the moment companies started collecting this data and started putting that into a structure there a lot of other good softwares including for example, service sensor, which is a customer feedback platform. Lot of companies started implementing these platforms so that they can use their own data to get the customer.
[00:02:28] So imagine that you have a CRM system which has all your customer databases, you know their cvs, you know what they do. You have the chat bot for the customer engagement, and you also have a customer experience software to collect the customer feedback. So now companies are utilizing their own data or their own consumer information to send service to understand their needs and wants, and they're able to do it real time.
[00:02:54] So they're not, they don't have to wait for weeks and months and they know at an individual level what is what, what is [00:03:00] happening because they're able to collect this individual level information and insights the entire, whether it's promotion or marketing campaign, are getting personalized in nature because company per now, most of the enterprises, they know that Raji, for example, or Jane, is using this particular card.
[00:03:18] This is a particular service that they use. This is a particular possibly gigabyte of data that they're. And they're able to analyze that not only for the analysis sake, but for the actionability sake, which means a marketing campaign for you from a, from a same company can be different to a marketing campaign to me, because of course they know our information, plus they're able to understand our needs and wants.
[00:03:38] So a lot of personalization is happening, whether you talk about promotions, whether you talk about marketing efforts, everything is getting personalized in nature. And that's a big ship that I've seen in the last three. Across every sector, whether they talk about automotives, whether they talk about banking, it doesn't mean that the products are catered to individual needs, especially at this point in time.
[00:04:00] The marketing campaigns are getting catered to individual needs.
[00:04:05] Jane: [00:04:05] Right. I think that's really interesting that you bring that up because. One of the difficulties in marketing is that it tends to, at least historically, been a bit more generalized. It was a bit more difficult, in a sense, to personalize, but now the combination of being able to capture more data and the digital functionality that we have, particularly when selling online, gives us that opportunity to customize, as you're saying. I think one of the things that's always come to my mind, right, when we're talking about market research and so forth, is, companies tend to poll people with a survey that says, well, what was your response to this?
[00:04:44] But you rarely have those sorts of open fields where people can actually type in what they think. And I realize it makes it very difficult to analyze the data because you have to actually read it. You can't run a program on it. But do you see [00:05:00] people taking any step in that direction to be able to dive deeper and get the actual written feedback?
[00:05:05]Rajiv: [00:05:05] So I think the multiple areas that I've seen, again in the last three years you know, I've been in the field of market research for 20 years. So previously we used to do pen and paper, face to face, right? Or might be a telephonic interview. Now those interviews are very intrusive in nature.
[00:05:20]You know, without taking up permission, I suddenly called Jane, Jane, you just purchased adversities from, from our showroom. Can you gimme feedback? And sometimes you might be driving and you might be getting. Those interesting methods are getting replaced with more tech based solutions. For example, you know, a telephonic survey.
[00:05:38] I think I'll spread this question into two parts. What we are seeing, we are seeing a fundamental shift in terms of the way data has been collected. Okay. So telephonic surveys face to face with us literally going away, and we see more WhatsApp based surveys where you can reply at your own convenience.
[00:05:55] So there's a survey which goes to. And these servers are cross touch points, right? The [00:06:00] moment you open a bank account, the moment you close a bank account, rather than somebody calling you and bothering you, they're sending you as soon as they're sending you WhatsApp, okay? Which is really less intrusive because I'm not expecting you to gimme feedback straight away.
[00:06:13] It's for you to give the feedback, but I'm not disturbing you. I'm not irritating you by calling you again and again. Now, that's one part. Second, because you know, with the more development, which has happened in ai, the text and sentiment analysis, which is what we talked about, the open ended survey. So rather than giving you a list of data to choose from, if I ask you why you're not happy with my service and I, I give you an option to voice record, or I give you an option to type that response.
[00:06:41]Now, given the example, there's so much analysis, there's so much work which has happened in the space of ai, which is a voice analytics or text a. . Now we are able to read those things, not we as individuals, but machines are able to read and predict, which is what we call the entire text and sentiment analysis, voice analysis, that based on what you're [00:07:00] writing, what you're typing as an open field the machine is able to give you a real time analysis.
[00:07:04]Now, previously in market research consulting, I used to do that in three weeks because I was manually coding everything. But because of the machine learning algorithm, which is reading the data and is giving you live summary of what people are writing or what people are talking, so these are some of the advancements which has happened in the last three, four years, especially in Asia when it comes to faster feedback, less inclusive methods, and the the entire area of text and sentiment or voice analytics.
[00:07:32]Yes, I, I think it's interesting the way you bring in that they're able to use AI to read into some of these things and, and pick up more insights. Now, when you're looking at the way people are structuring surveys like this, right, customer feedback, do you see any shift that's evolved over the years, or is it pretty much the same as, you know, the same way we typically, I think I do see a big shift. You know what I was mentioning many years back, it was pen and paper, face to face do to do. So from there, people, they started telephonic service. Now from telephonic service, we are moving into WhatsApp or SMS based service. So that's the first fundamental shift which is happening.
[00:08:14] Second shift that we are happening is moving from a recall based to the, to the moment of trip based. Okay. What I mean by that is rather than asking you to recall what happened a month, If I have your database in my CRM systems, and I know who you are, and I'm able to map your entire journey, I know that you as an individual went to Aara outlet, you purchased something.
[00:08:38] So a moment, a day after you purchase, I can send you a WhatsApp survey. So rather than record this survey, it has become more of a ‘moment of truth’ survey. Okay? Because I'm not asking you to recall a month back what happened, right? So that's another shift that I've seen, which is what? Which is what has happened. And, this ‘moment of truth’ survey, because the dashboards are live, you don't have to wait for a week or month, right?
[00:09:00] For the, for the, for the report. It's all real time. So that's another third shift that we are seeing. And the fourth fundamental shift that we are seeing in Asia. Previously it was all 60 minutes surveys. You know, one hour surveys where people are meeting you face to face to ask for 45 minutes to one hour surveys, which is too much of time consumption.
[00:09:18] Now, given the fact that now is a moment of growth, I can break servers into multiple small servers and I don't need an hour of your time every time. I can just ask you two or three questions. I can get the insights and I can move on. So those big long questionnaires have been crystallized into smaller modules, which are what I call two or three minute surveys.
[00:09:39]So these are the big four shifts that we have seen in the way we are capturing or analyzing the information. I
[00:09:44] Jane: [00:09:44] I think that's an interesting development that's come up now. When you're looking at the surveys that people create, are there things that you feel that marketers are perhaps getting wrong?
[00:09:55] Are there things that you feel they could be doing better?
[00:09:57]Rajiv: [00:09:57] I think so. I mean, you know, still when some, sometimes people use our platforms, so this, they send 30 minutes service. You know, they think that by asking. You will get more. Right, but not, the world is moving in a different direction now. Right?
[00:10:13] Right. So more is not more. In fact, you know, less can be more because you don't need to know everything about everything. You just need to know what you really want to know, because everybody's time constrained. So the less is more is what the, the question is Jean, because now you can personalize things, right?
[00:10:29] You can personalize the marketing campaign. So I don't need to ask you 30. So I wish people are using our platforms or, or even other platforms. You don't have to always bombard with 30 minute, 40 minute surveys, you know, you can just be very clear of what you want to ask your consumers. That's one.
[00:10:47]Second, if you have got your own database that you're collecting, possibly start utilizing that database. It's not only for the marketing, but also for the feedback collection, because a lot of people are sitting on the databases, but they just somehow, they don't know [00:11:00] how to use that database. You don't need to go to a consultant.
[00:11:03] Can you find my user? Because I want to do a survey on my user. We have the user database with you so you can utilize that database. So that's what I wish marketers could do better.
[00:11:13]Jane: [00:11:13] Yes, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that rather than try to come up with a list of so many questions, For your survey you need to think more strategically and develop a question or multiple questions that really will dive deep into what that consumer wants.
[00:11:35] Rajiv: [00:11:35] Yes, absolutely. That's exactly what it is. Yes.
[00:11:38]Jane: [00:11:38] Now in Southeast Asia, like in most of the world, customer loyalty has become a very challenging thing. Both online and offline really. What from your experience do you see leading brands doing to try to retain customers to try to cut back on, on that, you know, miserable churn that, that, that margin [00:12:00] killing churn.
[00:12:01]Rajiv: [00:12:01] Yes. So I think my belief is that customer experience is a key right now. You know, I think of course, you know, brand loyalty is going down. I think the reason for that is because everybody's almost offering a similar thing, and everybody, so I think traditional four pieces of marketing, which are price, place, promotion and product.
[00:12:20]There's not much difference between what is happening. You can, there's only an extent that you can go cheaper. You can't, you can't go zero, right? Now what I see recently in the last three, four years, again in South Asia, I think people are waking up to the thought that customer experiences where I can make a difference.
[00:12:34]For example, brands like Amazon, right? I mean, they've been built completely on the basis of customer experience. So those are some of the leading indicators that companies like Amazon have set as a benchmark that, you know, everything else is important. But customer experiences at the center right now?
[00:12:49] And I think in India I do see a lot of delivery companies that are doing the same thing. You know, delivery within a matter of 10 minutes. You know, if you go to. To buy and you [00:13:00] won't believe. I mean, there are companies like Zeto. There are companies like Zo that I use personally, and they're delivering at your doorstep in 10 minutes.
[00:13:10] Imagine you are going to a shop and buying stuff. It takes more than that. And these products have very, very good quality products that they're delivering. So I think that basically changing the entire way customer experience is creating a difference for the consumer. And, I do see some leading brands taking a lot of initiatives in that direction.
[00:13:30] Jane: [00:13:30] I think you're right. The customer experience is something that was overlooked for so long and now suddenly more and more brands are starting to realize that that actually can be game changing. And, I also agree with you that Amazon has been quite the leader and pioneer within that. . Now, we often hear when we're talking about customer loyalty aside from churn rates, which obviously is how many people come and go from your site and, and don't return.
[00:14:01] But what should we be looking at other than that? I mean, you mentioned net promoter score, customer lifetime value, something even more sort of intangible, such as customer happiness. What should we be looking at? I mean, maybe we should be looking at it all, but if you were to priority.
[00:14:19] Rajiv: [00:14:19] To see normally, you know, what we always recommend to our clients.
[00:14:22] I think net promoter score is a metric that everybody loves, right? That I think that everybody should be measuring. But I think, but again, I think it's not about measuring at overall level. I think it's breaking it down at a journey level. Okay. So mapping, that's where the CX program comes in. So mapping your customer in their journey.
[00:14:41]Let's take an example of a car. Deciding which car to buy for our after sales service. If that entire journey has been mapped and we understand which touchpoints that we can reach the consumers to, then the questions can be customized to the journeys. So just ask me. NPS score at the overall level doesn't really help.
[00:15:02] But once you understand that across touch points, then you really get the insights right, that in which part of the journey am I leaking, right? So if my bucket is leaking, At which touchpoint, at which particular journey that I need to improve on. So that's something that we recommend our clients to talk about, I think, which is going and understanding what exactly is the pain point that I'm trying to solve, at which journey touchpoint that I want to evaluate myself and putting a KPI against it.
[00:15:32] But those KPIs can multiply, they can either be NPS or they can't, even as simple as customer effort code, for example. If, if you are in a, in a space of. Top of cards, which are data packages. Is your data package easy to install? Mm. Right? How much effort that consumers have to do to get your connection activated, right?
[00:15:55] People can call it a CES, which is a customer effort score, right? So depending upon the touch point and the journey and what you want to evaluate, it can be, it can be customer happiness, it can be customer efforts score. That's how we normally recommend our clients to do and, and understand and, and that's how we have the entire CX programs to help them build.
[00:16:15] Jane: [00:16:15] Okay. So just to clarify for people in our audience who might not work specifically in marketing, but probably have marketing within their company. So customer, so the customer user experience is what it's like when a customer either comes to your store or comes to your website, and then the customer effort would be how difficult it is, for example, for them to, like you said, set up an account or whatnot.
[00:16:43] Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Yes. And, what about Net Promoter Score? Perhaps you could just briefly explain.
[00:16:51] Rajiv: [00:16:51] So, see, net promoter score is a very simple question which is a rating scale, which basically they ask you that how likely you are to recommend this brand, but you know, it's a likeliness to recommend a particular brand.
[00:17:05] Or a service. But again, as I said, my guideline to clients, just do not ask at an overall level. Because at overall level, you might get a net promoter score of 66 0, right? It might be a particular journey or a touch point. You might be a bit weak. For example, a car manufacturer might be doing a great job in selling it, but after sale service, a net promoter score might be only 30.
[00:17:28] So I do that at every touch point or at every journey of your customer . So that you understand at what touch point they are less likely to recommend. So might be for after sales service, they might not recommend you, but when it comes to pre-sales, it might be brilliant.
[00:17:43] Jane: [00:17:43] I think that makes a lot of sense.
[00:17:45] And I think you're, I think you're right. There are different steps along the journey, and people do overlook that. I mean, from my experience having received surveys after sales or after customer service surveys, you do start to become aware of the [00:18:00] fact that. How they're conducted, so to speak, and, and what they're asking you.
[00:18:04] So I think it's great that you point that out because it's good when you see companies making an effort, right, to get feedback. But if they're not doing it as you point out effectively or strategically, they're not getting the full benefit from it.
[00:18:19]Rajiv: [00:18:19] I think also it's very important that they should be able to see all of this in one single dashboard.
[00:18:23] Yes. Yes. Because if you're able to map your journey in one dashboard, then you don't have to look at eight different metrics. I would say the problem traditionally is that people are looking at eight different screens for eight different metrics. Right. If one dashboard can bring all of that together, then it just gives you a good wor, you know, birth type point of view and say, you know what exactly is my issue?
[00:18:45] You get both sides.
[00:18:46]Jane: [00:18:46] Now if you could just take a couple of minutes and tell us a little bit about what you're doing at neuroSensum and at surveysensum.
[00:18:56] Rajiv: [00:18:56] Yes. So we started this company in 2018. [00:19:00] We started as a consulting brand. Okay. Where we were doing neuroscience based market research. When we, we were able to help our clients understand what consumers don't save, which is to read their subconscious mind, right? So for that, we created an algorithm for brain mapping, eye tracking, facial expression.
[00:19:19] Wow. Which is to go beyond the stated. So that's what neuroscience does. And in the last four years, we got a lot of good leverage on the brand. I mean, people just love it because a lot of decisions that you take are at a subconscious level. You don't always make a conscious decision, and that's what neuroscience kicked in.
[00:19:39] But when we were going to the clients, we realized there's a big need for a DIY survey platform, which is only challenging because they said, no, I love consulting, but consulting is expensive and they're time consuming. But can you gimme a platform which can read the native languages in Southeast Asia which can, which I can integrate with my [00:20:00] chat bots, which I can integrate with my crm, where I can use my own data set to send service.
[00:20:05] And that's how Surveysensum came into picture. So Surveysensum got launched in 2020 while Neurosensum got launched in 2018. Okay? So these are how these two brands kind of complement and, and so our clients or our enterprises, they use both. If they need consulting services, they go to neurons.
[00:20:24] But if they need more of a survey platform as a diy, then they take service.
[00:20:31] Jane: [00:20:31] Interesting. And when you're using Survey Senso, is that something that's integrated into their online platform or is that sent as an email follow up to customers? How might that work? So it's,
[00:20:46] Rajiv: [00:20:46] so people normally take, they plug our api, so they integrate that with their ecosystem.
[00:20:51] So they're using a CRM system, they integrate with their CRMs, they integrate with the chat bots, they integrate with the social media. So they use their own [00:21:00] channels to either send service. So sending email as a survey is a very traditional way of doing things, you know, because their response rate is only 0.2%.
[00:21:08] 0.1%. So what we did was we asked clients to move away from emails, and I started using a WhatsApp day service. So we did a WhatsApp integration. Okay. We did integrations with the sms. So no clients can send service to their customers. And of course they have the database of their customers so they can send service on WhatsApp, you won't believe.
[00:21:29]When the client did this trial with us, when they did an email based survey, they responded with 0.1 person, right, Jane? And the moment they did a WhatsApp survey, it went up to us as high as 35%. Wow, that's huge. That's huge. So from 0.1% they've gone up to 35%. And they're, a lot of our clients are very, very happy with WhatsApp based surveys.
[00:21:50] SMS gives you approximately five to 6% response. Telephones, telephones, they give you two or 3% response rates. A lot of our clients who are doing telephonic surveys, they move into WhatsApp surveys or SMS [00:22:00] based surveys, which have a far better response rate, less irritation, less inclusive in nature.
[00:22:06] Jane: [00:22:06] Yes. Yes.
[00:22:07] I can see how that would work, particularly in Southeast Asia where I think people use WhatsApp for so many different things. More so as you're pointing out, than. And, and I think you're making a very good point that you have to look at the nuances of each region that you're working in so that you understand where that customer might be and most and be most likely to respond to you.
[00:22:32] Rajiv: [00:22:32] Absolutely. I think the idea is to be able. Reach out to your consumers in a more easier manner, which doesn't irritate them too much.
[00:22:40] Jane: [00:22:40] Yes. Yes, absolutely. Well, Raji, if you've shared so many interesting things and you've really broadened my mind about the possibilities of what you could do with market research for customer satisfaction and customer feedback, how to do it much better. So thank you so much. I mean, I think people will want to reach out.
[00:23:00] [00:23:00] How can they connect with you? Where can they
[00:23:02] Rajiv: [00:23:02] find. They can reach out to me on LinkedIn. Okay. I'm very active on LinkedIn. They can search my name Ra Lamba, and of course, you know, they can look at my profile there. Right.
[00:23:14] Jane: [00:23:14] Okay. Perfect. Well I will make sure that those links are in the show notes and of course they'll also be over on our podcast website at seat.fm so people will be able to find you and connect with you and hopefully be able to continue to work.
[00:23:29] So thank you again for joining us here on a
[00:23:32] Rajiv: [00:23:32] seat at the table. Oh, thanks. Thanks, Jen, for, for giving the time and I really appreciate it. Thank you. I really enjoyed the show.
[00:23:40] Jane: [00:23:40] Thank you.